John Livesay, aka The Pitch Whisperer, is an incredible keynote speaker. His TEDx talk: “Be The Lifeguard of Your Own Life” has over 1,000,000 views and was featured in Larry King’s Show. He has an innate ability to motivate company’s sales teams to turn mundane case studies into compelling case stories so they win more new business. From John’s award-winning career at Conde Nast, he shares the lessons he learned.
Best-selling author and creator of the online course “Revenue Rockstar Mastery.” He hosts his own Podcast “The Successful Pitch” heard in over 60 countries. John has a new book, The Sale Is in the Tale, is a business fable set in Austin, Texas, and he’s about a sales representative whose old ways of selling are not working anymore.
Questions
• Now, John, could you share with us in your own words a little bit about your journey? How would you say that you got to where you are today?
• What are the three techniques that you teach, or that you promote, believe in that will help sales representatives or sales professionals to be more customer oriented and be able to really drive the sale home?
• Now, as a Revenue Rockstar Master, because you have this online course Revenue Rockstar Mastery, what are some things that you teach in this course to help people to master their revenue?
• You have a new book out, it’s called The Sale is in the Tale. Can you tell our audience a little bit about that book?
• Could you also share with our listeners what is the one tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business?
• Now, could you also share with us maybe one or two books that you’ve read recently, or even a book that you’ve read a very long time ago, but it has had a big impact on you?
• Now, there’s a lot more AI opportunities like platforms such as ChatGPT and Open AI. Are these tools that you believe for organisations, regardless of the industry, that these AI opportunities that are existing can help to propel sales in the business? Do you think it will probably even replace at some point the human interaction and storytelling?
• What are three skills that you believe a sales professional needs in order to be successful?
• Now, can you share with us as well what’s the one thing that’s going on in your life right now that you’re really excited about? Either something you’re working on to develop yourself or your people.
• Do you have maybe one or two tips that you would give to our listeners as it relates to sales and customer service, just some golden nuggets based on your experience and all of the different things that you’ve garnered over the years?
• Where can listeners find you online?
• Do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge you’ll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or something happens, and you need to just use that quote to get refocused and just jump back on.
Highlights
John’s Journey
John shared that he felt that he’s always been motivated by connecting with people emotionally and that’s where storytelling really comes in. He had a background working for an ad agency, creating commercials for movies when they were coming out on home video and that’s really where he learned his storytelling skills and then selling multi-million-dollar mainframe computers against IBM, he learned that whoever told the best story is the one that got the sale, and that people buy emotionally and not logically.
Me: That is so true. It’s funny is that people buy emotionally and not logically because I’ve been preaching that in customer service for ages that the customers emotions are so important to the experience, because it’s what they walk away feeling, what they remember most not necessarily what you said, but more so the feeling that they walked away with?
So, can you share with our listeners, I’m sure you have way more experience than I do and you probably even have statistical data to backup this particular principle. Share a little bit about that, in terms of why is it that emotional has such a greater impact on the buying journey?
John shared that we’re wired for storytelling. So, if you think back to the days of when we all lived in caves, we told stories like fire. Now, we typically tell stories around PowerPoints at events. He thinks part of the reason is that it taps into a different part of our brain, if you start presenting a bunch of facts and figures to somebody, then they’re in this analytical, sometimes decision paralysis mode. But if you tell a story, it taps into a different part of our brain, where people will relax a little bit, they think, “Oh, this might even be entertaining.” And it allows them to retain the information in a completely different way and that solves a big problem because most people after they have a sales presentation, or even a customer service experience, whatever they said is forgettable. But if you told a story that makes people feel seen and heard, that makes you memorable.
Best Story-Telling Techniques to Get the Sale!
Me: So, sales and customer service go hand in hand and I think more and more as businesses evolve, and they recognize that they’re not two separate activities in a business and they really need to be combined in the best way possible. What are the three techniques that you teach, or that you promote, believe in that will help sales representatives or sales professionals to be more customer oriented and be able to really drive the sale home?
John shared that the premise is that whoever tells the best sale is the one that’s going to get the sale. So, honing your storytelling skills, the three things he teaches people are that a good story should be Clear, Concise, and Compelling. So, let’s break those down.
Why does it need to be clear? Because if you confuse people with a bunch of acronyms, they’re not going to tell you they’re confused, they’re just going to say no, the confused mind just said, “I don’t think so, too much work.”
Why does it need to be concise? Well, you want them to be able to remember and retell your story to other people to become your brand ambassadors. And if your story goes on and on and doesn’t have a point to it and isn’t concise, nobody can remember, let alone repeat it.
And finally, why does it need to be compelling? Because when you tug at those heartstrings, you get that all-important emotional connection that we talked about. People have to feel something in those stories, the stakes have to be high in order for us to care about what’s going on in this story.
Me: So, John, can you tell us what’s the best sales story you’ve heard that had all those three components?
John stated that he will tell a story about a client he worked with, they had a piece of equipment that was making surgeries go 30% faster and they would present that fact to doctors, and they would sell some, but not very many. And they kept saying, “It’s so logical, why are they buying?” And he said, because people buy emotionally, not logically even when they’re a doctor.
And so, he asked them questions, and they crafted this story that has totally changed how people perceive them and buy the product.
Imagine how happy Dr. Higgins was down at Long Beach Memorial using their equipment when you go out to the patient’s family an hour earlier than expected. And if you’ve ever waited for somebody you love to come out of surgery, you know every minute feels like an hour, the doctor comes out and says, “Good news, the scope shows they don’t have cancer, they’re going to be fine.”
And then turns to the rep and says, “You know, this is why I became a doctor, for moments like this.” Now that rep tells us this story to another doctor at another hospital, and the secret here is the other doctor sees themselves in the story and says, “You know what, that’s why I became a doctor, I want your equipment too.”
Me: Very good. I like examples because they definitely tie into the real part of the show.
Revenue Rockstar Mastery Online Course – what is this course about?
Me: Now, as a Revenue Rockstar Master, because you have this online course Revenue Rockstar Mastery, what are some things that you teach in this course to help people to master their revenue?
John shared that one of the things he teaches what he just did there, which is a case story instead of a case study, and teach people how to tell a story that other people see themselves in.
When the client heard that story they said, “Oh gosh, that gives us chills. Not only are we not telling a story like that, it never occurred to us to make a patient’s family a character in the story.”
And so, he teaches you how to figure out how to tell that story and how to pull people in, see how he uses that technique, “If you’ve ever had to wait for somebody you love.” And even if you haven’t, you could imagine what it would feel like to wait for somebody you love to come out of surgery that it would feel like every minute was an hour. And so, there are some techniques that he teaches people, so they go from just being a good storyteller to a great one.
Me: And what if you have a sales professional whose storytelling is weak, like they’ve never communicated like that before. This is definitely like a learning curve for them that is extremely steep, it’s not like they’ve had maybe a few techniques down pat, they just need to kind of craft it a little bit better but it’s all new to them. And they’re shy, they don’t like talking to people very much, how do you lift them out of that?
John shared that it sounds like there’s two challenges there. One, being shy, not talking to people is completely separate, maybe sales is not the career for you. But second, he gives people a structure on how to tell a story because the good news is, you don’t have to be a gifted athlete or singer to become a good storyteller, there’s an actual structure to it.
There’s the exposition where you describe, you paint a picture and pull us into the story and then you describe a problem as he mentioned, there has to be some emotional hook there that people care about what’s going on.
And then the solution and then the secret sauce is what is the resolution? What is life like for somebody after they’ve bought something from you or hired you?
Me: Because at the end of the day, every business is solving a problem. So I guess, if you can change the perspective of the story, where the benefit is to the person that you’re trying to sell to, and as you mentioned, create an image or a story that they’re able to see this problem being solved in the easiest way possible, then they’re more inclined to want to make the purchase.
John agreed. And you don’t have to be pushy. When you tell a great story that somebody sees themselves in, then they just want to go on the journey with you, you pull them into the story and you pull them into wanting to work with you. It’s like landing a plane, it’s that normal and expected.
About John’s Book – The Sale is in the Tale
John shared about his book The Sale is in the Tale, it’s set in Austin where he lives. So, it’s a little bit of a love letter to Austin. And it’s a story about storytelling, so you’re being entertained and going on a journey of somebody whose old ways of selling of just pushing out facts and figures isn’t working anymore. And they start to learn about the power of storytelling and it helps them not only in their career but in their personal life too.
Me: And where can our listeners access that book? Is it available as yet?
John stated that yes, it’s anywhere you buy books, Audible, he’s narrating it or Amazon wherever you want to buy a book, you can find it.
App, Website or Tool that John Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business
When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without in his business, John stated that calendar scheduling, it’s between time zones, so he just can’t imagine going back and forth with five different emails or phone calls trying to book people that way or getting himself booked that way. Those calendar links are everything.
Me: Is there a particular calendar application that you use or just the regular one on your phone?
John shared that he uses something called schedule OnceHub.
Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on John
When asked about books that have had a big impact, John shared that a book he read a long time ago, is Tim Sanders, The Likability Factor: How to Boost Your L-Factor and Achieve Your Life’s Dreams. And he’s done all this research on how the more likeable you are, the more empathy you connect with people. And doctors spend more time with patients they like, teachers spend more time with students they like. And so, it’s a great book on how to up your likability factor.
And then he also wrote another one, more recently called Dealstorming: The Secret Weapon That Can Solve Your Toughest Sales Challenges instead of brainstorming, it’s about dealstorming and how important it is to collaborate across divisions to get everybody on board to win business.
AI Replacing Human Interaction and Storytelling
Me: Now, sales is one of those things in an organization that is the lifeline of the organisation, right? If the company doesn’t sell anything, you can’t make any money. And if they can’t make any money, it cannot pay staff, it cannot reinvest, it just cannot continue.
So, could you share with us, we’re just emerging out of a pandemic, I know a lot of organizations definitely had to diversify and pivot and take on technology a lot more, especially if they didn’t have it integrated into their business.
Now, there’s a lot more AI opportunities like platforms such as ChatGPT and Open AI.
Are these tools that you believe for organizations, regardless of the industry, that these AI opportunities that are existing can help to propel sales in the business? Do you think it will probably even replace at some point the human interaction and storytelling?
John shared that he doesn’t think AI will ever replace the need for soft skills of storytelling, empathy and listening because what they can do is maybe help you write a proposal or a cover letter or a little faster than starting from scratch if you’re someone that doesn’t have that skill set innately honed in or worked on, but people are still going to want to buy from people is his prediction.
Skills that a Sales Professional Needs in Order to be Successful
Me: And what are also let’s see, three skills that a sales professional needs outside of the storytelling, the three C’s that you had mentioned. What are three skills that you believe a sales professional needs in order to be successful? Because I believe people buy from people who they like and people who they know. And so, how do you get people to like you?
John stated that instead of getting people to know, like, and trust you, which that concept has been around forever. The problem with, “Oh, let me get you to know me” people think they should send more data and more facts. “Let me send you one more email about some data point.”
So, he’s reversed that, and he says it’s a gut heart head order, you have to start with trust in the gut. Is this safe? Is it a fight or flight? Is this email safe? The introduction he got that’s a trust gets transferred, making eye contact. So, you start with trust, and then it moves up to the heart, which we talked about is where the likability factor is.
And the more empathy you show, the more likeable you are. And then finally, it goes to the head. And it’s still not the time to get into the intellectual left-brain stuff. But you’re answering by telling a story, the unspoken question everybody has when they hear you present or pitch anything, including yourself. Will this work for me? They might trust and even like you, but if they don’t think what you’re offering is going to work for them, they’re not going to buy.
Me: Agreed, that makes sense for sure. So, you said that they need to like you and there’s the heart component in terms of the empathy. And I’ve been asked the question quite a few times in some of my customer service training sessions, how do you teach someone to exercise empathy? Is that something that you touch on in your interactions with sales professionals?
John confirmed yes. An example is what’s the difference between empathy and sympathy? Let’s start there. Sympathy let’s say you are a sales rep and you’re walking in and you have an appointment and you see the receptionist has FedEx and UPS and the three phone lines ringing and two other people ahead of you. You could say, “Gosh, I’m sorry to bother you. But I have an appointment.” It’s a little bit of sympathy maybe but empathy is you literally put yourself in their shoes. You go, “Wow, you must feel like an air traffic controller today, whenever you have a minute, let me know.”
Me: So, we focus on ensuring that we have more of those types of experiences then.
John affirmed Yes!
What John is Really Excited About Now!
John shared that one of the things he’s really excited about is he’s crafted a new keynote talk called Tell Stories, Recruit Top Talent. And the Society of Human Resources has had him come speak and as well as Berkshire Hathaway Home Services. A lot of people are still struggling to find really good talent and they may be good at selling a home or selling whatever they do but they’re not good at telling a story to recruit people to come work there.
And so, once they learn how to tell a story about what the culture is, and what it’s like to work with them as a leader, and what stories of other people who’ve come on board, and how happy they are, then that totally allows them to get the top talent, typically from competitors to come work there.
Me: Is this like in an application or is it more through a website?
John stated that it’s neither. It’s something that people hire him to come speak at their sales meetings.
Me: Oh, so you’re going in physically?
John shared that that’s what he does for a living, people hire him to come speak at their sales kick-off meetings, typically on how to tell stories to win sales. And now they realize that HR is a sales function as well.
Me: Very true, because you want to recruit the right persons. And I find with customer service, as well, John, that if you can focus on getting the right people, it will mitigate a lot of the customer service issues that you have in the future. Have you found that for sales as well, if you get the right person to sell, because the hiring process is quite expensive, it’s time consuming.
John stated that you want to develop relationships with people that you sell, so that they either buy from you again and/or send you referrals. And so, if you have a salesperson that knows how to do that, then they’re not starting from scratch every day to try and find a new sale.
Tips as it Relates to Sales and Customer Service for 2023
Me: So, we’re almost halfway through 2023. Do you have maybe one or two tips that you would give to our listeners as it relates to sales and customer service, just some golden nuggets based on your experience and all of the different things that you’ve garnered over the years?
John shared that one of the things that salespeople struggle with is they get stuck in what he calls the friend zone at work when someone says, “Oh, I’m interested, send me some information” and then they get ghosted, just like when you’re in the dating world. And so, He thinks one of the key things to do is to realize that it’s up to you to tell a story to intrigue people enough to want to continue the conversation and not get stuck at the friend zone at work.
And so, that’s why storytelling is so crucial to continuing that path and also really allowing people to go at the pace that works best for them. One of the he thinks the worst things he’s ever seen somebody in customer service do is, “Well, we’ve never had anybody else complain about this.”
When you say that to somebody, you’ve invalidated their experience and their feelings, they don’t really care, “So what, I’m the first person to ever have a problem with this. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t fix it.” And a lot of customer service people like to say that to people, “Oh, wow, this has never happened before.” If he’s a customer, he doesn’t care it’s ever happened before, it happened to him fix it.
Me: Agreed. That kind of dovetails into my next question. So, I know that your expertise is to go in and pitch to these organizations how to tell a story especially to sell. But let’s say for example, you had to go into an organization to teach them.
Well, you wouldn’t be really teaching them to pitch but let’s say you’re trying to get them to convince them to purchase a programme that will help to improve on their service. Because I find a lot of times with organizations buying the product is one but if the product requires a high level of maintenance from the organization, that’s where it falls off.
I hear it a lot in Jamaica, you buy a car, the sales rep was running you down to buy the car and now you have the vehicle and you have an issues with it. Maybe something came on the dashboard, you can’t get the sales rep, you can’t get support at the dealership. How do you get them to that point where they recognize that the service is just as important as the sale because if the person doesn’t choose to renew or buy a car again in five years, you practically lost that first sale.
John shared that he thinks it goes back to painting a picture again, telling a story of what happens if you don’t have the service, like, “Do you need this warranty? I don’t think so. Well, let me tell you a story of somebody who felt the same way that you did right now. And then six months later, something happened and versus a story of someone who did get the warranty and how grateful and happy they are they have it.
So, you have to paint that picture of what happens if you don’t do what I’m suggesting versus what happens if you do do what I’m suggesting, and what you’re really selling his peace of mind.
Where Can We Find John Online
LinkedIn – John Livesay
Instagram – @thepitchwhisperer
Website – www.johnlivesay.com
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity John Uses
When asked about a quote that he tends to revert to, John shared that it’s a quote from Arthur Ashe, the famous tennis pro, he said, “The key to success is confidence. And the key to confidence is preparation.” So, anytime he feels concerned about something or overwhelmed, he realizes he has to think of himself like an athlete. And they practice, practice, practice before they get to the Olympics. And he needs to make sure that he’s as prepared as possible for any new situation when it comes up.
Me: Thank you so much, John, for hopping on to Navigating the Customer Experience, sharing all of these great insights as it relates to sales, customer service, some of the key things that you need to be a great storyteller, why it’s important to create that picture, create that situation so you can change the perspective of the person that you’re trying to sell to. And even in a customer service situation as you said, create that feeling that they walk away feeling good and they can’t walk away feeling good if the narrative that you’re selling is not one that’s giving them that feeling. So, your message was definitely well heard by me, I hope the listeners will get value out of it as well.
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Links
· The Sale is in the Tale by John Livesay
· The Likeability Factor: How to Boost Your L-Factor and Achieve Your Life’s Dreams by Tim Sanders
· Dealstorming: The Secret Weapon That Can Solve Your Toughest Sales Challenges by Tim Sanders
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