Alan Versteeg, an engineer turned sales management expert, initially approached the sales world with skepticism, but soon turned it into a thriving career by applying the engineering principles of cause and effect to sales and sales management. This success led him to co-founding Growth Matters, where Alan and his team have developed over 2,000 sales managers across 45+ countries and diverse industries.
Known for his candid and light-hearted approach, Alan’s passion for the sales profession shines through in his insightful talks, leaving audiences engaged with his wisdom, expertise, and memorable one liners.
Questions
· Now, could you start by sharing with our listeners a little bit about your journey, how it is that you got from where you were to where you are today.
· Can you share with us maybe two overarching themes that you try to help sales professionals master in terms of their mindset, to get them to where you need them to be in order to master their sales?
· What are some barriers that you believe a lot of salespeople face, why it is you believe they’re not successful?
· Now, Alan, could you also share with our listeners, what’s the one online resource, tool, website or application that you absolutely can’t live without in your business?
· Can you also share with our listeners maybe two books that you’ve read? It could be a book that you read recently, or even one that you read a very long time ago, but it still has had a great impact on you.
· Could you also share with us what’s the one thing that’s going on in your life right now that you are really excited about, either something you’re working on to develop yourself or your people.
· Where can listeners find you online?
· Just want to ask you as well, Alan, in your experience, in the journey of your lifetime, if you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, if for any reason, you got derailed. Do you have a quote or a saying that once repeated or just remembered it helps to get you back on track?
Highlights
Alan’s Journey
Me: Now, could you start by sharing with our listeners a little bit about your journey, how it is that you got from where you were to where you are today.
Alan shared that he started as an electronic engineer, it wasn’t his fault, he grew up watching Airwolf Night Rider and MacGyver, so he thought that’s what he’d be doing. Unfortunately, he lost his dad when he was quite young, he was about 12 years old, but he was an engineer, so he thought that’d be a good thing to do. But he was doing it for about 3 years after graduating, and he read a book called You’re Born an Original, Don’t Die a Copy by John Mason, and he said, “If you passionately hate what you’re doing for more than 2 weeks, you need to stop,” and he’d been doing it for two years.
And a friend of his suggested he goes into sales, which he then tried and please if your listeners don’t drop off now, but he got asked to leave his first sales jobs, but it was frustrating. As an engineer, he believed in cause and effect. He believes that there’s things you do that get you certain outcomes. He was doing everything they told him to do, but he couldn’t find a way to get through, he’d be good at his product, he was passionate to what he was doing, but he wasn’t able to succeed.
And then he worked under a manager, he said to him, “Alan, is sales a job or a profession?” So, he knew the right answer, the right answer was, it’s a profession. And he said, “Well, how hard did you study for this profession?”
And then the penny drops, and from there on out, been a passionate reader, 50 to 60 books a year, generally related to psychology, self-development and sales and over time, realized that the big change in sales is sales management, and that’s a short view of his journey to where he was and how he got here.
Mindset Needed for Sales Professionals
Me: Now you deal with a lot of sales professionals, and I can imagine it starts with their mindset. Can you share with us maybe two overarching themes that you try to help sales professionals master in terms of their mindset, to get them to where you need them to be in order to master their sales?
Alan stated that it’s a great question, and it speaks to the tone of your podcast. So, the first mindset they have to own is that “Selling won’t help, but helping will sell.” That the sale is the reward for an intent to create value. And that’s the starting point when we realize that we are service orientated, that we’re there to drive value into the client’s business or life, that there’s something specifically we’re trying to do, that were truthfully customer centric it’s not just a word, and we realize that selling won’t help, but helping will sell.
You’ll find that salespeople do really well. There’s a wonderful book called Selling With Noble Purpose: How to Drive Revenue and Do Work That Makes You Proud by Lisa Earle McLeod, and it shows the research behind the top performing sales professionals globally sell with that noble purpose, with an idea to serve. So, it’s definitely one of them.
The second one is probably an extension, he said to sales professionals, “If you believe in the product you sell and you believe it can add value to the person you’re serving, then it would be borderline negligent to avoid offering them that value.”
Many salespeople, specifically today are fearful of cold calling or proactive sales calling or reaching out or picking up a phone or speaking to someone, and they take on a very much non-human sales approach, as opposed to going, “I believe, with certainty and conviction that what I have to offer will make their lives or their business easier, and I’m here to help, and helping will sell. So, I’m going to depart from that point.”
And what you find is doing that, apart from that point, the skills, the body language, all the risks that start to develop quite naturally, but often we avoid that, we try to train the skill, but we avoid the mindset.
Barriers To Overcome as Salespeople
Me: So, once you tackle their mindset, now you have to ensure that what they’re selling, as you mentioned before, is actually helping the customer and adding value to the customer’s life. What are some barriers that you believe a lot of salespeople face, why it is you believe they’re not successful?
Alan shared that he thinks the big barrier specifically in professional selling is conviction of the value proposition, and before that is clarity. And he’ll give a couple of examples.
When he speaks to business leaders, they often say to him, “You know what Alan, the challenge with our sales teams are they just don’t understand our value proposition.”
And he says, okay, great. What is your value proposition? And they struggle to articulate it. Now, if you think about this, why is it that entrepreneurs can sell quite effectively without ever having been trained in that skill, and the reality is they have clarity and conviction of their value proposition. He thinks with many sales professionals, we’re teaching them the product, we’re not teaching them the impact it has on the customer’s life.
Once we buy into the impact, once we have the conviction, selling is a natural part of how we are as humans and Dan Pink wrote that book To Sell Is Human: The Surprising Truth About Moving Others.
And his (Alan) example is we have a brand over there, it’s called Woolworths, it’s a high-quality brand, high quality food brand. And if you said to anyone, “But why shopping in Woolworths? They’re so expensive.” They dive into a defense, without being paid by this company, they will sell very hard the value of doing that.
The same could be said for someone who’s an Apple phone fan. And he can continue, once we have conviction of something, the ability and need to persuade is actually quite natural. So, he thinks what’s missing from an individual’s perspective is that conviction of the mindset.
From a corporate, it’s the fact that we speak about customer centricity, but none of our measurement metrics or meetings actually align to that.
Me: Now, I found that in a lot of organizations, they’re heavily sales driven, right? I find it as a customer service trainer when companies hire me to come in and train their team, especially the leadership teams in customer service, or even customer experience design or customer journey mapping, there’s a lot of emphasis that I hear them talking that they have these exorbitant sales targets to meet on a month to month basis, and with these targets that they have to meet, they don’t have as much time to give to customer centricity or to give to the experience, because it’s all about meeting the target. How do you strike that balance as a salesperson? What would be your recommendation?
Alan shared that there’d be two components. The first would be at an organizational lens, speaking to what you’re saying. He thinks organizations have forgotten that when you take care of the customers, the number takes care of itself. So, we are so focused on the month, on the quarter, on the year, we’re not focused on the value, and that’s a shift that needs to happen.
But practically, the way that shift happens is in the account planning process, when we start treating our customers and accounts and saying, what is the value we’re delivering. Many companies go, what more can we sell them? What’s the white space we can sell into? What does that look like? And that’s the big organizational.
From a salesperson’s perspective, the only thing you can do is you need to figure out how to allocate your effort. And the way he says that is you have to beat everyone equally but handle them differently. You have to segment your customers, otherwise you can’t take care of the ones that need to be taken care of, and your competitor is going to snatch them up. And in any sales business, he’s ever worked with, if you lose, and it’s generally about 10%, if you lose about 10% of your customers, you lose about 90% of your revenue.
But organizations are just focused what’s the next sale, what’s the next sale, what’s the next sale? And what happens is, we’re putting two barrels on the truck, and three barrels are falling off the truck because we’re not focused on the customer service.
And we almost see it as something separate, and it’s not. The way he articulates this is there’s a thing called the value gap, it’s the gap between what customers expect and what they experience. And it is everybody’s job in the organization to close that gap.
It’s not, “Hey, sales go set the expectation. Hey, service go and deliver against that expectation.” It’s an organizational mindset that we exist to close the gap between the customers expect and what they experience.
And he thinks their leadership needs to start realizing that taking care of customers, the numbers take care of themselves, and that talking to a spreadsheet or talking to a CRM system or talking to data doesn’t change people’s behaviour.
So, leadership needs to take a different perspective on this and going, what is it we do now that lays the soil in the seeds for the numbers we need?
App, Website or Tool that Alan Absolutely Can’t Live Without in His Business
When asked about online resource that he can’t live without in his business, Alan shared that right now ChatGPT. He thinks that we are negating its value in sales if we’re using it incorrectly. So, he’ll give you a context.
As salespeople, we need to be creative and optimistic, and we’re not fans of admin. So, the good news for sales professionals is a lot of our admin is going to be replaced by technology, but that’s going to leave a lot of sales professionals wanting because what do you do with the time that you used to spend putting your data. But he really leverages the tool to shorten his learning curve, understanding a customer, understanding what the challenges are, understanding key things. It’s a tool to summarize, it doesn’t replace him as it shouldn’t, it enhances him.
And he was listening to one of Yanique’s earlier podcasts, you talk about the human-to-human connection, and there’s this thing now where we talk about human-to-human selling. And he’s like, well, if you think human to human selling is new, then you haven’t been around for millennia, because that’s what it is. It’s a human-to-human task enhanced by technology. But right now, if he talks about probably 60% to 70% of his time is given back to him because he knows to leverage ChatGPT.
Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Alan
When asked about books that have had an impact, Alan shared that that’s a tough question with all the books he read, but he’s going to give one that he always recommends. The first one is called The Slight Edge: Turning Simple Disciplines into Massive Success and Happiness by Jeff Olson, and the premise of the book is that simple disciplines practiced consistently over time, lead to a life of greatness, and simple errors in judgment made consistently over time, lead to a life of blame. There’s no Hollywood moment, there’s not one big movement, they’re just simple disciplines. Look at any leader, any sports hero, any person who succeeds in their profession, they practice the disciplines. So, there’s definitely one that guides his life.
And then the other one is a book called The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth About Extraordinary Results by Gary Keller, and it’s really about forgetting this construct of work life balance and finding out what’s the one thing I can do such that by doing everything else is easier or unnecessary. And it talks about this work life counterbalance, and how you just keep the things that matter, you don’t make them extreme fluctuations and the things that don’t matter can be extreme. You can be heavily buried in a work project for three months, but during that time, don’t forget your health, your family time, the things that matter. Just tone it down a bit, not all the way down. Those are two books, he’d say, personally, really drove him.
As a business professional, recently read that 10x Is Easier Than 2x: How World-Class Entrepreneurs Achieve More by Doing Less by Dan Sullivan, wonderful resource for anyone that’s listening, that is an entrepreneur or business owner, 10x Is Easier Than 2x.
What Alan is Really Excited About Now!
Me: Now, Alan, could you also share with us what’s the one thing that’s going on in your life right now that you are really excited about, either something you’re working on to develop yourself or your people.
When asked about something that he’s excited about, Alan shared that he’s recently moved to a smaller coastal towns that’s been really good for him personally, but the big thing happening for him business wise, is there’s a very large global brand that they’ve managed to secure that’s 10x’ing our business, which is a plan they had based on that book that he’s read, and starting to see how that effort, energy and focus is paying off, is really rewarding. When you read a lot of books, you can get sometimes caught up in the story and not in the action.
And what’s really great to see, in a proud moment for their business, is now really starting to take on some recognized global brands who are looking at effectively three guys from South Africa and saying, “We want to partner with you to do this.” So, it’s a proud moment that’s come, your overnight success is the longest night of your life.
But really what it’s been powerful is seeing the practices that they put in place now starting to bear fruit. And when you say, take care of the customers, the number takes care itself, it’s actually quite prolific, how?
And you know this, he’s preaching to the converted, but when you understand that the only thing that matters is how customers experience you, then everything else becomes a lot easier, because their ability to grow is because they just have a track record where they phone a customer, and they love what they’ve done with them. And that doesn’t mean it’s easy to scale, it’s still hard to scale. But he thinks that’d be the big thing right now, is seeing how by applying certain principles, you can stretch your own mindset, stretch your own goals, stretch your own vision for your business, and really start to play where you always believed you can.
Where can listeners find Alan online?
LinkedIn – Alan Versteeg
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Alan Uses
When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Alan shared that he has quite a few, but one of his favourites, because of its depth is, “How you do anything, is how you do everything.” And the reason that’s so important is it’s easy to be in a good mood when times are good, it’s easy to be of a good character when times are good, it’s easy to be a pleasant person when times are good, but when things are challenging, that’s where your character gets tested.
And how you do anything, is how you do everything. And he says to leaders all the time, Richard Branson said it so well, “The best way to take care of your customers is to take care of your employees.” Because the minute you take care of the employees, the customers feel that. And it’s because how you do anything, is how you do everything.
You can’t be polite to your customers but rude to the person waiting at you at a restaurant or trying to help you at the airport. Airports are so fascinating because everyone complains to people who are really just trying to get you somewhere safely and within strict guidelines that people, they don’t treat people well.
And he believes that how you do anything, is how you do everything. And in challenging times, that tests you, can I remain of good spirit?
Can I remain a good demeanor?
Can I remain patient as a person when things are difficult?
Can I maintain my faith?
Because it’s easy to maintain my faith when things are great, it’s difficult when you’re in the lion’s den, and that’s for him, a quote that just guides him and says, just remember, they still shape your character, this is a test of your character and a bad day for the ego, is a beautiful day for the soul. It’s time to grow.
Me: Well, thank you, Alan, so much for hopping on this podcast and sharing all of these great insights with us. It was very insightful to understand your perspective as it relates to sales and customer service, and to reinforce a lot of what we do talk about on this podcast, Navigating the Customer Experience as it relates to ensuring that the customer experience is not just managed effectively on the outside, but it needs to start on the inside. And you said it beautifully when you gave Richard Branson’s quote that if you take care of your people on the inside, and they’ll definitely take care of your customers on the outside. So, I think it was a really great conversation and I just really wanted to extend our deepest gratitude for your participation in our conversation today.
Alan shared an extended thanks to Yanique and the work she’s doing in this space. One of the things that he definitely picks up in everything Yanique shared, the customer experience is not a thing, it’s a culture and when we actually realize this, everything becomes easier, because it seems obvious, it does take a lot of work, as you know, it’s a profession. But when companies understand it, the only reason we exist is to create value for customers, then the customer experience is the report card. So, thank you so much for the work you’re doing in this space and for having him on the show.
Please connect with us on X @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience.
Links
• You’re Born an Original, Don’t Die a Copy by John Mason
• To Sell Is Human: The Surprising Truth About Moving Others by Daniel H. Pink
• The Slight Edge: Turning Simple Disciplines into Massive Success and Happiness by Jeff Olson
• The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth About Extraordinary Results by Gary Keller
• 10x Is Better Than 2x: How World-Class Entrepreneurs Achieve More by Doing Less by Dan Sullivan
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